TA Rd2 Knockhill

[Startline Al]

I can't speak for TA as I don't work for them.
The problem as I see it is there is no easy way to have a road class, it has been looked at in detail but the only soloutions left it open to protests.
As for promotion, that video was'nt commisioned by Time Attack.
TA has tried to go down the route of promoting all the classes but it costs a lot of money to do so and in the end that has to come from somewhere, who pays for it?
If you can think of a way to include lower spec cars stick them up here and lets have a look, It would be interesting to see what we can come up with.
Remember as well that you have to get enough cars to make another session viable so you would be talking 25 ish cars.

[jap.slapper]

It's a difficult one but maybe TA could look at approaching the various clubs/forums and offer up the opportunity for them as a club/forum to nominate 3 road going representatives to be entered into a much cheaper 'Inter Club Class'.

Effectively leaving it up to the clubs/forums themselves to select their 3 representatives.

It would obviously need a bit of massaging and there's always going to be a bit of grey area with regards to what is and what isn't a track car/road car, so maybe a bit of strict criteria such as:

(a) entrants cars must maintain rear seats and carpets if fitted from the factory (bucket seats and harnesses permitted for driver/passenger)
(b) no nitrous
(c) no slicks, tyres must be road legal
(d) safety devices (cage/extinguisher/cut offs) discretionary
(e) helmet mandatory
(f) cars must be taxed, have valid MoT and must be insured

and leave it at that...

The clubs/forums could be left to whittle down their own representatives (in whichever way they deem fit) and effectively their 3 selected nominations turn up to compete on the day.

- The first 15 minute session, eliminates the slowest of each club/forums representative

- The second 15 minute session, eliminates second slowest of the club/forums representative

Leaving the quickest representative of each club/forum to compete in the final session.

In first and second sessions you may finds that the car from each club/forum (eg. 350z) that goes through to the final is actually slower than other cars that were eliminated (eg. GTR) however this means that it Police's itself and you're not left with a grid full of Scooby's and GTR's in the Final session and ultimately don't have a load of RWD sat on the side lines watching.

Effectively it means that the first and second Sessions are against your own club members, its only when you reach the final that its marque vs marque.

Therefore you'll end up with 3 podiums for the fastest 3 car/drivers in the field but you'll also have each club representative acheiving a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Club/forum driver.


That's just my 2p worth and I'm sure that there are things that I have overlooked through my naivety and in-experience but it's a start point for debate at least

[Startline Al]

Problem there is that with the MSA entries are open to anyone, you can't restrict who enters.

[jap.slapper]

If the clubs/forums ran their own selection (pre event) this could technically be deemed a preliminary round?

The clubs/forums could run the preliminary's themselves, therefore the preliminary's wouldn't necessarily have to be in the form of a separate track day competition and could just be a case of 3 volunteer members stepping forward/being nominated by their peers to represent the club/forum. They would automatically qualify for entry into the quarter final (Session 1 on the day) as a representative of their particular club.

Post preliminaries, Session 1 could be deemed the quarter final, Session 2 the semi final and Session 3 as the final?

Alternately additional grid slots could be made available to 'guests' who are not members of a club/forum, though the progression/elimination ruling would still apply.


The Class would technically be open for any man and his dog to enter, though to qualify for entry into the quarter final they would have to progress via the preliminaries or apply to enter on the day as 'a guest'.

This would also mean that additional club/forum members could enter the Class competing as a 'guest'.

If that meant that there were 5 GTRS lining up on the grid on the day (regardless of them being club/forum/guest entrants) that would be fine, however the principle of 'only the fastest of that particular marque progresses to next session' would still stand....meaning that at the end of Session 1 three of those five GTR's would be eliminated.

Likewise if only 2 GTR's started the event then after completing Session 1 they would both automatically progress to Session 2 and so on...

It's effectively 3 x 15 minute Sprint sessions whereby one (or more) of each marque is eliminated at the end of each session, culminating in a Final session where each marque has one representative on the grid.

[Startline Al]

As I said, if you open up an entry anyone can enter until that class is full, you can't pick and choose who you have in it.

[jap.slapper]

So ultimately there's no way around it, TA is in part a victim of its own success and today it seems that if you want to be competitive (even in Club) you need to have even deeper pockets and a fair amount of sponsorship and support in your corner.

Do you spend $$$$ tuning and modifying your 20 year old Jap daily driver in a vain attempt to make it faster, lighter and handle better or do you acknowledge the fact that from the off you'd be better to just invest in a Noble, an ex Porker Cup car or a Radical with some indicators and headlights bolted onto it in order to have a cat in hell's chance of getting results.

I've been watching the recent videos on Youtube and it looks absolutely immense and it must be exhilarating to drive some of the machinery but it just appears to be moving further and further away from Fred Bloggs and his modified daily driver

As mentioned before though I can see why FWD is gaining in popularity

[Startline Al]

It's difficult isn't it!
If you look at the rules you suggested there's nothing to stop someone sticking a good engine in, good suspension and away we go again
There just isn't a sensible way to get a low cost class in there that doesn't have reams of rules, and of course lots of rules goes against the whole ethos of TA and lots of rules mean lots of protests. You may not believe it but there are several high powered cars out there at the moment that do have MOT's!
Another thing to remember is that all circuits have a limit to how many cars you can have on circuit at one time, club is very close to that limit at the smaller circuits at the moment, so to intoduce another class you would need to run another session which would need enough cars to cover the costs which would make your eyes water at some of the circuits.
It's difficult and would be terrific if anyone could find a soloution.
Al.

[jap.slapper]

Maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong...

[Startline Al]

[pablo]

I know that video wasn't commissioned by TA. however Time Attack UK has a lot more clout than Joe Bloggs racing. I have in the past spoke to the guy that does the mlrss so have an idea of costs involved.

1. An officially backed video with series sponsors, TA logo etc. would in my opinion carry more weight.

Club 4WD - 1 vid depicting all competitors
Club RWD/NA - As above
Club FWD - 3 vids (due to high numbers split into 3 groups)

The cost is then split between them eg. Club 4WD 7 entrants split cost between 7.


2. Why no drivers profile on TA website. Most competitors and even some sponsors have now set up facebook pages to advertise themselves. So a simple page on the website

Drivers name
Car
Facebook address/website

It's inevitable that cars will get quicker in the classes and you will always leave a bit of head way in your build. But when the rate of growth is so quick taking that next step can be a massive up in costs.

3. The 5% rule needs to be extended and applied to the qualifying and final. Last year in a bet which i won. I picked one driver at a particular that round that i bet would win qualifying and then throw the final. He did. Nothing wrong with that he was playing to the rules.....Loop hole thats needs closing.

4. The 5% rule & the interest of the series.
In 2012 due to the competitors we knew we were in for an arse kicking for the first 3-4 rounds. Then under the 5% rule I was confident that at least 2 or 3 would get bumped up, giving us a slim chance but a chance to fight for a podium. (Luckily we had a few problems with our car which meant it never really performed). However after round 2 the 5% rule was changed to 2.5% which kept them in club. 'In the best interest of the series'.

Thanks for your money but if you could just do us a favour and stay out of the camera shots we would be very grateful.......

So you might ask, why do we bother.....Unless you know us you'll never understand.......