Time Attack v Civic Cup

[pjs65]

Being in the pitlane is the place to be for the TA as you can see whats happening whereas the support races are there to up the entertainment level trackside . I did look at the TA website about the club class rules and why the cars in the class have such a wide range in performance and budget levels , and its ment for road cars that people have spent money on and want to use them on track . Without more specific rules people can more or less use what they like , so really its open to anyone and even i could probably have have a go . Pete

[IWANT1]

We looked into this but alas our car does not comply to the regs in so many ways. But that is a good entry level form of racing which we have considered.

Thought it would have been perfect wheel to wheel racing classes worked out by power/weight.

http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/requirements/car

http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/media/2 ... ations.pdf

[pablo]

Thanks for posting that up Lee:thumbs:
When I last looked into it you had to be running an engine that was fitted to that model and the cosworth engine was never fitted to the 5 dr sierras. You were also restricted in wheel size to 1"dia. above factory.
Food for thought now though, cheers.

[RX7]

Gareth, I take your point. However, let me try and put it another way.

You have a seriously nice car that you have built over the years to what it is today.

Why did you not just buy one already done?

The journey and therefore the challenge is just as important and as rewarding as the destination.

I'm not doubting the fact of improving the car once you have it mate but if I was going to compete in TA I would need to seriously modify the car more than standard before starting to be anywhere near competitive (and thats at the lower end) which means a bigger outlay than on the first page. at least 15 grand on a tab at Harrys and Overnight parts from Japan

Not doubting what you have said mate at all. Just dont think you can compare a 'relatively' cheap form of motorsport like the Civic Cup where you genuinely stand a good chance of being competitive to the motorsport monster that is TA where the deeper your pockets the more chance you have of winning.

[Tommy]

IMO the TA culture is to spend rather than perfect the driving. As mentioned in the other thread my best time in a 351 bhp car is 2:11.1 around Snetterton 300 and I'm no amazing driver. On the same day that I raced there, there was an M3 3.0 with 300 bhp with a very good driver and he clocked 2:08. That would have put him 5th and me 8th in amongst cars with silly power outputs.

The lack of a proper class structure is what makes TA a HUGE turn off for me (not that it would ever compare to racing anyway) but since it draws big crowds, it has a place I suppose.

[Monster]

Ok thought I might aswell chuck my 2ps worth in.

TA. Been close to it for a long time since whifbitz started doing it with the RX7. Even as "part of the team" I thought it was boring to watch. BUT you don't enter any race championship for the benefit of spectators. If you did care about spectators, lets be honest, you'd have a massive crash every time you went out as that's what ultimately entertains the masses, especially at something like modified live where most attendees aren't exactly motorsport enthusiasts.

I agree the class structure is flawed and allows the man with the most money to win, but this is the same in every form of motorsport - there's always something you can do - be it expensive or cheating - but most most professional motorsport teams will admit to pushing/bending the rules (especially when you read about momentus historic victories when after several decades a lot comes out in the wash).

However, I will defend the "open" nature of TA. It was designed to, and still does, offer an opportunity to compete in a wide array of machinery with open modifications, which in this era of so many people modding so many types of car in so many different ways has got to be a good thing. Inevitably it gets hijacked by the big tuners to show off their abilites and is that a bad thing?

Surely the essence of "competing" in TA is the same. You just need to decide if you are competing for a win, a class win, or to beat the guy/s who are most closely matched to you and your car. The challenge and satisfaction of the driver remains the same, if not the ultimate recognition by standing on a podium. Just accept it for what it is.

I'm a big fan of one make/controlled championships like civics/mx-5s up to porsche cup and see their appeal too, especially from a spectator point of view. But even the guys in this enter with their own expecations set - do you get your Nat B licence, buy a mid price civic and expect to win in your first season? not if you have any sense. But over time as you improve, you learn the tricks with your car, and, dare I say it, you get the best one withinin the regs, you might well win the championship.

Either way, it's all good fun.

[stockcar]

most of my race customers are horrified by the cost of competing in what they see as a "glorified sprint"...........

as for one-make series don't ever make the mistake of thinking that every one is on a level playing field, have been involved in quite a few both circuit and rally wise - every time money gets you closer to the front
as an example in one rally series you were only allowed restricted tyre compounds and "fixed" suspension / one competitor decided to spend 4-5 days testing various variations so he could then "spec his "fixed" struts and build up a mass of tyre data for varied conditions - not cheating by any respect BUT a far cry from the guy who drives his car to the event and can only afford a pair of tyres now and then..........

[blacky]

I think its like comparing apples to oranges, Ta to a 1 make race series.

As said in this topic, it depends on what you want to do with a car you have or do you want to try and complete on a more level playing field. But there is no getting awy from the fact that if you want to do well in TA. The bigger the chequebook, the further up the grid you'll get.

I can't though see how you guys (Pablo and Bart) are getting VFM from TA with the car your running?

I admire your enthusiasm and commitment, but from and outsiders point of view, its looks to me like your passion and dedication could be better used with either getting a different car to compete in or refining your car to compete in another form of motorsport where you could be fighting for class/championship wins.

Anyway, best of luck with which ever direction you take for 2013

[Stuart]

I think that this is like a rabbit hole; the further you get into it, the more places you can get lost or caught up on the details/dead ends.

In my opinion, Time Attack in the UK is great for the following reasons

1. The crowd size
2. The level of media interest
3. The venues used

Things I don't like about the series

1. Entry costs against track time
2. Lack of clarity and consistency in rules for classes
3. Class structure itself

I always thought that the Super Lap Battle in Japan, Time Attacks original principle inspiration I thought, was run just once a year and always at Tsukuba? (I may be wrong). With liberal rules, I kind of like that idea. I can picture the big tuners going all out developing their cars for a once a year head to head This would also give the street legal guys plenty of time to prepare........maybe there could be qualifying rounds so that numbers could be dwindled down? I digress......

Racing in something like the Civic Cup won't compare easily with a sprint series as we've all agreed (I think). I fundamentally think that if more people competed in TA with similar cars, then many people would look upon the series with fonder feelings. If there was twenty cars with similar spec, it would be regarded as one of the most credible sprint series out there. As it is, the disparate nature of cars, specs, drivers, owners and backing all coming into the mix, how on Earth is anyone going to be delighted with the outcome?

A good debate this thread. One of the better ones on here in recent times.

[gary@apt]

i was tempted for time attack in mine but decided not to on one hit wonder,heres why