at the end of the day some people can only win if they cheat,
if that be by sand bagging, have the rules changed, buy an already fast clubpro/pro car or buy and EX touring car and race in club class, lets be honest there only cheating themselves.
there were a few club pro/pro cars in club class this year and you know
what it didnt bother me as its great to take an old sierra and mix it up with
Time Attack v Civic Cup
Why start the thread then?:D
I haven't had time to read my 38 emails, 6 PM's and 22 new posts on here, let alone Facebook etc, so if I am jumping the gun please bear with me.
The Civic Cup and Time Attack series are very different things as we all know (in principle). I can see why people love TA, and I can see why people love racing whether it's the Golf Championship, MX5, MR2 or Civic for that matter.
Cost wise if you were to closely compare the overall costs of a seasons TA in say club and a seasons Civic cup, the only considerations you need to allow for is competitiveness. For the costs you mentioned (or thereabouts) you could be assured of being on a level playing field in a one make series. For the costs you mentioned in TA, you have no idea how competitive you would be as the series' flexibility also means that people can stretch rules, buy success and sometimes, fundamentally cheat.
This weekend I saw TA guys using tyre warmers (not pro's), guys using 1A tyres when the the race was declared suitable for 1B only (or the other way around) amongst other things that you could perceive as being flexible or sloppy, dependent on your standpoint. I wasn't the only one to see these things, but I wasn't competing (obviously) so stayed out of it. The guys I was with at the time, however, brought this up with organisers at the time. I do not know the outcomes at this time. Clearly advantages can be gained left, right and centre if people want to look for them.
My point with this is that one make stuff makes it easy. You all run the same stuff, with just geo mods and pressures to choose from (I am over simplifying it, but you get the gist). I don't have the money to choose what I would do, so my opinion at this stage is irrelevant. I loved the atmosphere on Saturday and Sunday morning. TA brings the crowds, and builds interest with the general public. The CC guys said that joining up with TA was the best thing that they could have done; bigger crowds, more interest from sponsors and better awareness from people about the series as a whole through more coverage in magazines etc.
I hope that there hasn't been any negative conclusions taken from my one man band 'I love Civic Cup' campaign.
I haven't had time to read my 38 emails, 6 PM's and 22 new posts on here, let alone Facebook etc, so if I am jumping the gun please bear with me.
The Civic Cup and Time Attack series are very different things as we all know (in principle). I can see why people love TA, and I can see why people love racing whether it's the Golf Championship, MX5, MR2 or Civic for that matter.
Cost wise if you were to closely compare the overall costs of a seasons TA in say club and a seasons Civic cup, the only considerations you need to allow for is competitiveness. For the costs you mentioned (or thereabouts) you could be assured of being on a level playing field in a one make series. For the costs you mentioned in TA, you have no idea how competitive you would be as the series' flexibility also means that people can stretch rules, buy success and sometimes, fundamentally cheat.
This weekend I saw TA guys using tyre warmers (not pro's), guys using 1A tyres when the the race was declared suitable for 1B only (or the other way around) amongst other things that you could perceive as being flexible or sloppy, dependent on your standpoint. I wasn't the only one to see these things, but I wasn't competing (obviously) so stayed out of it. The guys I was with at the time, however, brought this up with organisers at the time. I do not know the outcomes at this time. Clearly advantages can be gained left, right and centre if people want to look for them.
My point with this is that one make stuff makes it easy. You all run the same stuff, with just geo mods and pressures to choose from (I am over simplifying it, but you get the gist). I don't have the money to choose what I would do, so my opinion at this stage is irrelevant. I loved the atmosphere on Saturday and Sunday morning. TA brings the crowds, and builds interest with the general public. The CC guys said that joining up with TA was the best thing that they could have done; bigger crowds, more interest from sponsors and better awareness from people about the series as a whole through more coverage in magazines etc.
I hope that there hasn't been any negative conclusions taken from my one man band 'I love Civic Cup' campaign.
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stuart@auto-genie.co.uk
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your right about one thing .
i spent allot on the astra.
now it's gone im squirreling money away like there is no tomorrow lol
i spent allot on the astra.
now it's gone im squirreling money away like there is no tomorrow lol
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But Pabs it all depends on what you mean by 'competitive'. That to me means a top 3 finish, not anything more than this. You'll never get anywhere near that without spending a shed load more money than you have quoted on the first page.
Just don't like the class system, there should be caps say on cost or power/weight etc.
However the Civic Cup is the complete opposite as the costs are more fixed...level playing field.....much better chance of being competitive. Plus a real hoot to watch.
I don't think a circuit address systems and commentary help, TA is still dull as ditchwater to watch. You never know who is on a quick lap, who isn't, what classes they represent etc etc. the main reason they are popular is they are combined with the modified live shows. If you put TA on a different weekend then a lot less people would attend and I'm guessing hence why the Civic Cup was moved also.
Just don't like the class system, there should be caps say on cost or power/weight etc.
However the Civic Cup is the complete opposite as the costs are more fixed...level playing field.....much better chance of being competitive. Plus a real hoot to watch.
I don't think a circuit address systems and commentary help, TA is still dull as ditchwater to watch. You never know who is on a quick lap, who isn't, what classes they represent etc etc. the main reason they are popular is they are combined with the modified live shows. If you put TA on a different weekend then a lot less people would attend and I'm guessing hence why the Civic Cup was moved also.
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Gareth
Gareth