Snetterton February 8th

[Danny@APT]

To jump into a trackday with rapid cars like your's and Gary's would've been far more stressfull, so I'm surprised these Novices did it.

Not in the same bracket Danny but thank you for the compliment, and I agree with your sentiment. Segregation is fairer and safer. Keeping it in house is even better

You may not have mega power levels, but I've watched the various vids and you definately don't hang about!

Jay- This is where a sessioned Novice day works best in your case. You can guarantee once the quick, confident drivers have roared-off ahead, you're left with a large space where you can have several laps to build-up your pace. By the end of the day you're staying ahead and passing those same people.

That's what I found anyway, mate.

[Nik]

Betty did look good out there today although I did think that Stuart had shrunk whilst driving the beemer and then I found out that it was Nik driving

:

I know it's not meant as one but I will take being compared to Stuart as a compliment any day.

[Nik]

today was just messy and at times you wonder if you could be knocked off at any time..

id run at a big power day any time even if it was novice,inter,and advanced all on track, on big difference RESPECT....

I agree wholeheartedly Gary. Messy is a very good way of describing the etiquete today. I know I am not the most experienced at track days but even I know that overtaking into corners is frowned upon and on a couple of occasions I saw this happening and was also a victim of it myself once. There were also people being "cut up" by someone pulling out to overtake as they were half way through being overtaken themselves etc.

A couple of occasions (even though I only had two "sessions" ) I experienced first hand someone pulling out of the pits and going straight across the track in front of me instead of hugging the curb into Riches, (fine if you are coming out quickly, but not if you are not) proving that they either didn't look in their mirrors or didn't care that somone was coming up the straight.

The lack of respect today was blatently obvious.

Anyway, on a lighter note I would like to thank Stuart very much for the opportunity to take Betty for a few laps and get back out on the track again as I have missed it so much. I cannot praise you highly enough for your genourosity sir and the phone call an hour or so after I had left, Just to see if I had enjoyed myself really made me chuffed to bits to think that someone who had leant me their car to abuse ( for slightly longer than I should have for the first stint ) on the track would then phone me to make sure that I enjoyed it. Once again Stuart, thank you very very much. I am endebted to you sir.

It was nice to see some of the usual suspects there and some of the rarer visitors.

Gary, one day I may even pluck up the courage to jump in the pax seat for a lap or two with you.

Once again thanks to all for making it an enjoyable day and I hope that some of the driving out there doesn't put you off too much.

[RobCallow]

I had a great day possibly the joy of not having such a bigpower car is that you can push it hard but still have fun at the same time and not get caught up in the power struggle of the middle runners.

I don't think I got in the way too much?

I did experince some poor driving (getting overtaken by two 5 series as I was turning into the esses!!! Was interesting!!!

In all car went great and I had a good time :-D

[Stuart]

What a good thread I've enjoyed the sensible debate.

Some very well made points. I think the answer (for me) lies in;

-A sessioned day or evening with distinct groups for experience

or

-Open pitlane but for intermediates and advanced only.

Like I mentioned earlier, this suits my case and my experience level. I think someone can only be too quick for their track time if they are with people of lesser experience. If you read the track, like we're all supposed to read the road, you can pre-empt problems and deal with them before they happen. My cock up with the Caterham was down to neither of us predicting what happened. It was that simple. If we all think first and consider the other guys on track, we'd be laughing, but when the only common interest shared by 60 odd guests is 'I want to go fast' you are bound to get problems. Problems which are avoided when you have a club day with shared interests and more consideration towards a guy that you know in the car behind or in front.

This sort of problem does seem to be more pronounced at a track like Snetterton were anyone with a right foot can go well down the long straights.

The points idea or licencing schemes have been suggested for years Jay. Both ideas have there merits but equally they both terrify TDOs from an administrative point of view. I would be in favour of it. 100%


As for the next BigPower event, I'm working on that now (or I will be when MSV open at 9am)

[Stuart]

To add some level of perspective on this;

If Blacky, Mika, Bladey, Tk, Gerry, max1 or any one else out of the people that I consider to be genuinely quick had been there yesterday we all would have faced the same problems. Does that make all of these guys 'too quick'? I think it shows that you need the right groupings, plain and simple.

There are so many people I know that are faster than me either due to their cars, the talent or both. What the Hell happens to guys like that?

If you can't afford or are not inclined to race, how can you pursue the art of driving cars really quickly?

I'd welcome some feedback from Malcom Edeson on this. Let me see if I can rouse his interest.

[Ben]

Great debate guys, it's been said through this thread, irrelevant of skill, ettiquite and respect for other cars and for christ sake if you're holding people up .. let them through !!!! ... this track session would have driven me mad. And f**k me, if someone is stupid enough to attempt to follow another car then complain that the brake lights don't work .. urr durr, they could quite easily use the excuse - I tried to follow that beemer but his suspension is better ....

I see what has been written about novices, intermediates etc and learning from the other drivers ... I drive in my bubble - I do not follow other drivers or copy them, I experiment with each corner, each braking point, but my cornering, my braking ... there is such diversity in our vechicles with regards setup, suspension, brakes that you cannot assume that what you're seeing is actually possible in your car!.

Get an instructor out with you and learn from them !! ...

[Safety_James]

Interesting read and some good ideas, i will have a look into all the points that have been raised and see if we "msv" can come up with a few different packages to offer this year at Snett to make things more accommodating for people etc and see if we can work a little closely with the track day organisers and actually work with the feedback given here for future reference!

[duncan]

Personally I think it is useful sometimes to have all experience levels out on track at the same time. It helps to show the newbies what track etiquette should be like and the speed differentials that still exist.

I wouldnt want every session like that though.

Nice to have laps where you are not inturrupted in flow but if you are there testing and need clear laps get an ARDS test and do a test day. Other than that you have to take what you can out of it.

I had a day at cadwell like that last year (i think) where so many Lotuses that thought they were quick just werent quick enough too stop me reeling them in through the twistie bits and as a result I got very few full clear laps all day. Was still fun if you can control the red mist.

At snetterton, it is only a real issue because of the different routes to speed that people take, light and well handling versus more power. This can be frustrating when a better handling car catches a more powerful car at the corners only for the gap to increase again on the straights if the more powerful car doesnt play ball. Most of the time they dont unless it is a mainly BP day in which case I would hope they would. (but it doesnt always follow)

[Fast Eddy]

Ye, a great debate and an issue that was bound to come up sooner or later.

Yes we in the club have various levels of driver, but most of us are experienced. Those that are not and like the club are likely to become better with experience and help form some of us.

On the issue of on track etiquette surely it is down to the event organises who do briefings to be more firm on this and the marshals to spot quickly anyone who has not understood or headed what they have been told. I am sure this is something that will be brought up in discussions though.

We have some very quick cars/drivers who like to drive very quickly on trackdays and these people are highly respected for their skill. By the way Stu, i think you need to include Jason in your list. These people are not really suited to be on track on a public day with novices obviously if thay want to drive hard. So yes we need to be organised so we go out on track with like minded people who are not going to cause the isues that were obvious yesterday.

I know Stu was trying to sort some kind of race series which would be ideal for these people who want the little extra that a track day. I am not sure how this is going.

My 2P. I hope it came across ok.

Eddy