Budget drift set up.

[323ian]

Is it best to get the rear of the car very stiff very drifting and leave the front a bit softer as i have welded a extra roll bar on the back of the silvia i have to try and stop some of the body roll to help an amatuer (and very poor) drifter?
Just thinking whether it would be best to weld another roll bar to the bottom of the front bar.

Any other simple things you can do to help a begginer at drifting?

[Bladerider]

As my mum always said,

"I like it stiff, the harder the better !!"



That being said it would depend on the rest of the suspension. Rock hard rollbars with little control over the actual damping of any one corner of the car (particularly the driven wheels) will quickly start to lose you grip and contact with the tarmac when in a slide.

J.

[duncan]

Ian - the reason it is rolling is due to the roll centres being lower than the centre of gravity by a large amount. This is normally made worse when lowering a car without consideration to the geometry of the suspension components.

You can either raise the roll centre, lower the COG or both to fix the issue.

Stiffer ARB's are a sticky plaster and not the solution to your problems.

[Stuart]

Any other simple things you can do to help a begginer at drifting?

Practice

[323ian]

Any other simple things you can do to help a begginer at drifting?

Practice

Will be doing that as much as possible when car is finished!

Where is all these BP drift days????? :-D

[323ian]

As my mum always said,

"I like it stiff, the harder the better !!"



That being said it would depend on the rest of the suspension. Rock hard rollbars with little control over the actual damping of any one corner of the car (particularly the driven wheels) will quickly start to lose you grip and contact with the tarmac when in a slide.

J.

Knew you would be able to offer some good advice, i know i keep banging on about it but this car really is built on a budget and adjustable suspension was out of the question but i have lowering springs and and was thinking that stiffening the roll bars would help start the car to slide.
So the basic question i was asking was would it be better to have the car stiff or soft, seems like your mum answered for me!! :-D

[323ian]

Ian - the reason it is rolling is due to the roll centres being lower than the centre of gravity by a large amount. This is normally made worse when lowering a car without consideration to the geometry of the suspension components.

You can either raise the roll centre, lower the COG or both to fix the issue.

Stiffer ARB's are a sticky plaster and not the solution to your problems.

Interesting mate, care to explain in lamens terms for me?
What do you mean by roll centres?

I would say that the centre of gravity in ths car is very low now.

[Stuart]

Where are all of these drift days....????

http://www.dwyb.co.uk

One a month with our friend Lex and the guys.

[duncan]

Ian - the reason it is rolling is due to the roll centres being lower than the centre of gravity by a large amount. This is normally made worse when lowering a car without consideration to the geometry of the suspension components.

You can either raise the roll centre, lower the COG or both to fix the issue.

Stiffer ARB's are a sticky plaster and not the solution to your problems.

Interesting mate, care to explain in lamens terms for me?
What do you mean by roll centres?

I would say that the centre of gravity in ths car is very low now.

I dont know the exact suspension set up on your car but generally speaking....

for example:

The centre of gravity may be at 12 inches above the road as you have lowered it but... the roll centre is what the actual geometry of the components dictates.

Look under the car and you will see the lower arms.

draw a line from the outer pivot point (by the wheel) to the inner pivot point (on the chassis) and extend that to meet an imaginary line drawn at right angles to the top mount of the strut. Now draw a line from that point to the centre of the tyre. Where that line cross the centre of the car is the roll centre. As you have lowered the car, this point may well even be below the level of the tarmac.

The higher this point is reduces the level of roll in the car in corners. (up to the point where it is equal to the COG where there will be no body roll at all and beyond where the car will actually lean into corners like a motorbike)

options:
1) lower the out pivot point to bring the intersection point upwards (using a whiteline roll center adjuster type pivot)
2) raise the inner pivot point (requires custom moving of pivot point for the lower wishbone if it has them)
3) both of the above

ps - the roll centre moves even further down when the car rolls so a car that has a tendency to roll will be inclined to lean even more once leaning.

pps - there is a different roll centre front and rear and together they make a roll axis which dictates the cars tendency to understeer or oversteer but that is too big a subject for me to go into (even if I knew it )

lots of good books Ian - look for Jeffrey Daniels (not the dancer from Shalamar )

[Stuart]

or



I can lend you the film Ian, Dunk can probably lend you the LP