Dyno banter about May 13th @ APT
Well you asked for it
All in all, a level playing field was enjoyed by all. Quite how the team at APT got through 29 cars in that period of time, with decent graphs that meant soemthing rather than getting people on, one power run and them booting them off, is impressive. There were some funny old graphs but then there were some funny old cars. Here's mine from another time :wack:
http://www.auto-genie.co.uk
07733 527430
stuart@auto-genie.co.uk
Valeting, detailing and undersealing
07733 527430
stuart@auto-genie.co.uk
Valeting, detailing and undersealing
Not on DD dyno's - it is a formulaGerry H wrote:I believe that flywheel figures are calculated during the run-down after the power run i.e. by how much resistance the rollers see in drivetrain losses .dynamix wrote:Thanks Gary
How come then that Ben's produced less at the wheels than mine but more at the flywheel?
Gary - Now you have completely lost me
... surely hp is hp ?-
Christian and Beccy
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Incidentally, if the figures aren't as they should be then rock-on as my 351bhp 1600cc 8-Valve CVH might be more like 380bhp!! 8)
Also, just think about Gary's 600bhp EVO, which is already making excellent power for the boost it is running, compared to other similarly spec'd cars.
These cars were both run no differently to any of the cars that were run on Sunday. Infact, I wish I had put mine on there now to prove a point, I just didn't think anyone would have been interested, also we were short of time!
It is fairly widely known that turbo'd cars don't make exactly the same amount of boost on a Dyno as on the road, many people compensate for this by increasing the duty on the Boost Controller. However, on a Dyno day, which is a sociable day where people like to compare cars, how is this fair for those that can't adjust boost so easily? That's why we don't get involved in that. If the amount of boost is less on the Dyno than on the road, at least everyone is on an even-keel.
My Boost Controller records a peak of almost 2.0 bar on the road, but I actually hold more like 1.85bar. The peak will occur in an earlier gear or as a spike, which must, in my opinion, be discounted. In terms of held-boost, there is hardly any difference. I certainly trust a professional spec MAP sensor, outputting to a graph/dataset than relying on readings from gauges of all different makes/ages, some anagloue, some digital.
Dyno Dynamics system is used all over the world and is trusted and highly regarded by many manufacturers, that use it for testing. BP (you know? those people that dabble in making fuel) use Dyno Dynamics Dyno's, of which they own several, to carry out their testing. Their research has been over several decades of experience and, just because they have made discoveries which aren't condusive with the methods used in other Dyno's, it is a difficult concept to grasp. However, they tell me that in 2 very recent and notable examples, an Evo which make 611bhp on an Engine Dyno, was actually recorded at a figure which the DD system estimated at 614bhp. Similarly, an Escort Cossie made 465bhp on the Engine Dyno and 467bhp on the DD.
Dyno Dynamics are striving towards global standardisation, which, when you think about it, is alot more likely from their system than anyone elses. You know that wherever you run your car in the world, the DD sytem will have been manufactured recently, from the same materials and providing the operator is running cars by DD's guidelines, then the conditions will be comparable. This is why the same gear is used and the tyres are inflated to 50psi. DD tell us that according to their research, these are the conditions which are optimum for consistent and repeatable runs, so we (unlike many others) follow their rules. Failing to do so is silly, because you are going against the design of the Dyno. Many millions of dollars went into the research, what do we all know by comparison? Very little is the honest answer!!
Also, just think about Gary's 600bhp EVO, which is already making excellent power for the boost it is running, compared to other similarly spec'd cars.
These cars were both run no differently to any of the cars that were run on Sunday. Infact, I wish I had put mine on there now to prove a point, I just didn't think anyone would have been interested, also we were short of time!
It is fairly widely known that turbo'd cars don't make exactly the same amount of boost on a Dyno as on the road, many people compensate for this by increasing the duty on the Boost Controller. However, on a Dyno day, which is a sociable day where people like to compare cars, how is this fair for those that can't adjust boost so easily? That's why we don't get involved in that. If the amount of boost is less on the Dyno than on the road, at least everyone is on an even-keel.
My Boost Controller records a peak of almost 2.0 bar on the road, but I actually hold more like 1.85bar. The peak will occur in an earlier gear or as a spike, which must, in my opinion, be discounted. In terms of held-boost, there is hardly any difference. I certainly trust a professional spec MAP sensor, outputting to a graph/dataset than relying on readings from gauges of all different makes/ages, some anagloue, some digital.
Dyno Dynamics system is used all over the world and is trusted and highly regarded by many manufacturers, that use it for testing. BP (you know? those people that dabble in making fuel) use Dyno Dynamics Dyno's, of which they own several, to carry out their testing. Their research has been over several decades of experience and, just because they have made discoveries which aren't condusive with the methods used in other Dyno's, it is a difficult concept to grasp. However, they tell me that in 2 very recent and notable examples, an Evo which make 611bhp on an Engine Dyno, was actually recorded at a figure which the DD system estimated at 614bhp. Similarly, an Escort Cossie made 465bhp on the Engine Dyno and 467bhp on the DD.
Dyno Dynamics are striving towards global standardisation, which, when you think about it, is alot more likely from their system than anyone elses. You know that wherever you run your car in the world, the DD sytem will have been manufactured recently, from the same materials and providing the operator is running cars by DD's guidelines, then the conditions will be comparable. This is why the same gear is used and the tyres are inflated to 50psi. DD tell us that according to their research, these are the conditions which are optimum for consistent and repeatable runs, so we (unlike many others) follow their rules. Failing to do so is silly, because you are going against the design of the Dyno. Many millions of dollars went into the research, what do we all know by comparison? Very little is the honest answer!!
Dunk
Chill out mate. You're like a seven year old kid asking 'why?' all the time I have mentioned to Gary and Christian about doing a Dyno Dummies guide question and answer session some time. I'll be sat at the back with a beer and a grin while you're sitting there with your laptop and a puzzled expression 
Chill out mate. You're like a seven year old kid asking 'why?' all the time
I have mentioned to Gary and Christian about doing a Dyno Dummies guide question and answer session some time. I'll be sat at the back with a beer and a grin while you're sitting there with your laptop and a puzzled expression http://www.auto-genie.co.uk
07733 527430
stuart@auto-genie.co.uk
Valeting, detailing and undersealing
07733 527430
stuart@auto-genie.co.uk
Valeting, detailing and undersealing
Can I just add my 2p ?
I pay Gary to map my car and do all the dyno work,
While he's doing that I'm gonna join Nik and Stuart at the back with a beer.
Its way too complicated for me to understand unless gary fancies giving me a job!!!!!
I pay Gary to map my car and do all the dyno work,
While he's doing that I'm gonna join Nik and Stuart at the back with a beer.
Its way too complicated for me to understand unless gary fancies giving me a job!!!!!
s13 with 313bhp and Omex management and now an APT fully forged engine