This seems to be generating a degree of discussion on the September Meet Thread by Russ 997 so I thought that there may be sufficient interest to pursue the issue and explore opportunities to discuss with senior police officers what exactly the strategy and objectives are and what we can do to minimise inconvenience to BP members whether or not on a club function.
Firstly let me say that this is not a new strategy it was employed back in the 1960`s stopping motor bikes going to a bike cafe in Windsor using Eton High Street, the objective was to stop us using the high street the strategy was to cause inconvenience
However things have moved on a bit since then, from what I have read in a previous thread and from the one referred to above and discussed with other BP members there would appear to be a great deal of subjectivity about who and why someone is stopped and what legislation is being implemented.
There is one obscure piece that may at first sight seem not relevant and that is "Air Polution" in a previous life I challenged this but was informed by both the HSE and our legal department that noise was indeed an air polution issue.
There will always be an element of luck about being stopped or not but also and probably the main cause is how the car or bike you are driving/riding is perceived by the police officer who is making the stop.
Clearly there is cause for concern but if we understood more about the why perhaps we could eliminate a great deal of inconvenience and cost
Random Stopping of Vehicles
Forces are set KSI targets (Killed or seriously injured) to reduce the amount of people whose lives are ruined by collisions every year. They will employ different methods to achieve these, some more "fair" than others. (How many times have you seen supposedly Overt camera vans tucked behing bloody great Artics parked at the side of the road?) Essentially, Road Policing, traffic or black rats or whataver else they are called have figures to achieve as they are a quantifiable measuring stick against which Forces can be measured and compared, both against other forces and previous periods of work.
Coppers are no different to anyone else. Some "get" both motorsport and modified cars, others don't. This is the first area that will effect whether or not you get stopped.
Some will be bored, some will see the car in question as more interesting that going to another obstruction in the highway or broken down polish lorry driver on the A11.
I honestly think the way in which we are policed is massively contentious, and never more so now that we pay so much for fuel, insurance, track days, parts..........who can afford to throw
Coppers are no different to anyone else. Some "get" both motorsport and modified cars, others don't. This is the first area that will effect whether or not you get stopped.
Some will be bored, some will see the car in question as more interesting that going to another obstruction in the highway or broken down polish lorry driver on the A11.
I honestly think the way in which we are policed is massively contentious, and never more so now that we pay so much for fuel, insurance, track days, parts..........who can afford to throw
Class thread.
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I think what may have upset those that attended on sunday is the seemingly heavy handed approach that was taken. I dont know weather or not it was pure coincidence the police being there? But a meat wagon two patrol cars and a bike sat on the road outside to me seemed a little OTT for our little gathering. As responsible policing i would have expected a patrol car to have come and checked on us and ensured we were not about to start our own "gumball"
)Thanks for the comments Rob, helpful and informative I got caught by a stategicaly sighted camera van earlier this year, I think we have seen the last BP/Norfolk Police Autotest day thanks to the very people we tried to help when they were on track at Snetterton.
What does concern me though is any underlying campaign to impose penalty by stealth and doing so arbitarily without clear identification of the statutory instrument being used, lets not forget that the stealth camera`s are being withdrawn around the country so a shortfall in income will follow, I would not like to see this replaced by another form of stealth
It would indeed be of benefit to encourage the younger element to take on board the BP ethos but to gain any inroad it would be helpful to understand the strategy and objectives and an open dialogue would seem to be a way forward
What does concern me though is any underlying campaign to impose penalty by stealth and doing so arbitarily without clear identification of the statutory instrument being used, lets not forget that the stealth camera`s are being withdrawn around the country so a shortfall in income will follow, I would not like to see this replaced by another form of stealth
It would indeed be of benefit to encourage the younger element to take on board the BP ethos but to gain any inroad it would be helpful to understand the strategy and objectives and an open dialogue would seem to be a way forward
Harry, a very eloquent response!
Unfortunately I did nt get any A levels so did nt understand half of it. ROFL
I agree, if you can get the local plod to engage (other than at the road side) to explain the rationale, it may proof useful for both sides. They have no interest in stopping legitimate legally driven cars, as other than providing "reassurance" to on lookers, it achieves little. I think the younger element are unlikely to readily reserve tomfoolery for the right location, as they generally have to pay for it. This is of course a generalisation, as some young people could lead by example in that department (A mate's son go karts regularly, and when let behind the wheel of a car on a closed track was VERY careful indeed)
Unfortunately as Norfolks stance is this, you are in for a rough ride if you go out of the area of the track I fear
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/contactus/ ... estion=359
From their own site, it would appear engagement is possible, but it needs to be carefully managed
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsevents ... laday.aspx
It seems they might have a fairly narrow perspective of tuned cars
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsevents ... light.aspx
Unfortunately I did nt get any A levels so did nt understand half of it. ROFL
I agree, if you can get the local plod to engage (other than at the road side) to explain the rationale, it may proof useful for both sides. They have no interest in stopping legitimate legally driven cars, as other than providing "reassurance" to on lookers, it achieves little. I think the younger element are unlikely to readily reserve tomfoolery for the right location, as they generally have to pay for it. This is of course a generalisation, as some young people could lead by example in that department (A mate's son go karts regularly, and when let behind the wheel of a car on a closed track was VERY careful indeed)
Unfortunately as Norfolks stance is this, you are in for a rough ride if you go out of the area of the track I fear
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/contactus/ ... estion=359
From their own site, it would appear engagement is possible, but it needs to be carefully managed
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsevents ... laday.aspx
It seems they might have a fairly narrow perspective of tuned cars
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsevents ... light.aspx
A lot does depend on what part of the country you live or drive in as to how the police carry out their duties. It has always been a concern of mine with our cars always been heavily graphic'd. Yet the only time we've ever been stopped in it (Herbie) was when driving it to cadwell.
Dialogue is the way forward, but just because we are members of BigPower doesn't mean we should have a 'get out of jail free card'. If you pull away from a junction a bit quickly with sounds of dump valves or wastegate chatter expect to be stopped, whether or not you break the speed limit.
Social interaction is a good way to change perceived impressions. The auto test event that Bp helped at is the sort of thing. We take our ethos and experience and use it to help the youth of today. (Remember what we were like at their age).
Dialogue is the way forward, but just because we are members of BigPower doesn't mean we should have a 'get out of jail free card'. If you pull away from a junction a bit quickly with sounds of dump valves or wastegate chatter expect to be stopped, whether or not you break the speed limit.
Social interaction is a good way to change perceived impressions. The auto test event that Bp helped at is the sort of thing. We take our ethos and experience and use it to help the youth of today. (Remember what we were like at their age).
Thanks for the comments Rob, Pablo, As previously stated the very people we were trying to help let everyone down by a few behaving like total prats when being taken round Snetterton under a safety car.
The Police attachments were very interesting Rob, and I guess shows the difficulty in connecting with very diverse audiences, on the one hand they advise the general public about potential meetings then alienate the very group they want to target by giving them a blanket name of "Boy Racers" they need to find a better name for that group that reflects what they do.
I whole hartedly agree with the view that if the car looks un-cared for or is driven like a loon or are young then you are more likely to get pulled up.
I guess there is no easy answer to the problem, if asked which was the more serious problem I would say excessive noise from ICE it will cause permanent long-term hearing problems.
I do hope though that we as a club can continue to have an input as we have over the last couple of years that I am aware of and that in some small way help make a difference
(Think I left my work head off this time)
The Police attachments were very interesting Rob, and I guess shows the difficulty in connecting with very diverse audiences, on the one hand they advise the general public about potential meetings then alienate the very group they want to target by giving them a blanket name of "Boy Racers" they need to find a better name for that group that reflects what they do.
I whole hartedly agree with the view that if the car looks un-cared for or is driven like a loon or are young then you are more likely to get pulled up.
I guess there is no easy answer to the problem, if asked which was the more serious problem I would say excessive noise from ICE it will cause permanent long-term hearing problems.
I do hope though that we as a club can continue to have an input as we have over the last couple of years that I am aware of and that in some small way help make a difference
(Think I left my work head off this time)