Tigerfill's random cage questions

[Tigerfill]

Sorry Logan for hijacking this thread ..but I'm to looking to move my car on to the next level and make it a motorsport car!!
Can anyone help with cage decisions now do I buy a scondhand bolt in one? a newone and weld it in? or get a company like the one above to supply and fit?

I want a cage that I can do almost anything with i.e. circuit, sprinting, rallycross, stage rallies etc.. I'm not saying i will compete in all of the above but would prefer the options.

How would I stand with the fia/msa with the above options? do they need to be certificated(not sure what that really means?) and how would I go about it if I had a secondhand one for example. sorry if I'm confusing myself and sounding like idot but I would like to make sure I make the right descion before I buy and fit the wrong one..lol

thanks Phil

[Stuart]

Started your own thread mate

OK, here are some starters

1) What car do you drive?

2) What budget do you have?

3) What level of prep are you prepared to go to?

In a nutshell, FIA/MSA spec are very similar. Most of the race series that you're likely to compete in will all be covered by general cage specs, so even the cheapest 'proper' cages will be FIA or MSA spec. It is the cage design itself that earns the certificate, so as long as the cage is approved by the MSA (for example) then you'll be covered. Many of the manufacturers have embossed plates listing the date of fabrication, the regs that is passes or meets and who made it.

Something like this

Next question?

[Tigerfill]

Started your own thread mate

OK, here are some starters

1) What car do you drive? That would help..lol it's a 97 sti V3 scooby

2) What budget do you have? Well i wil be doing this over the next year as I imagine the they will be quite a few hidden costs but i would like to keep it below

[Stuart]

You would only need an MSA log book to do rallying or non-road legal class sprints (as far as I know) The roll cage people will supply a certificate but I have a feeling it's subject to approved fitting. You could theoretically buy a 'legal' cage, pay me to weld it in, I fuck up the welding and then your cage would 'fail' scrutineering........I would not be on anyone's approved fitter list whereas a proper welding firm may well be (Best to check with the MSA via their site or ring a manufacturer. Obviously if you buy and a cage and get them to fit it, you're laughing.

Sparco cages are a nightmare to fit (just ask APT or Slarty Bartfast/SCA) Nightmare!! If you want to go rallying or proper racing (not trackdays or sprints) I would try and save up the dosh and get a structural weld in cage, rather than a bolt in one. They are dearer and far more permanent but you will benefit from;

1) enhanced safety
2) better residuals at sell on time over a stock shell with a bolt in
3) a stiffer structure for the suspension to work from

For prices look at Custom Cages, SHP or for supply only look at people like Custom Cages, Caged, Protection and Performance..........there are loads of firms.........Rollcentre, Safety Devices. I have a recommendation for welding to an approved standard to but he wouldn't thank me for putting his details on here. He charges by the hour and isn't cheap, but he does an MOD spec job.......so plenty good enough for cocking around with cars


EDITED TO ADD

Your 3k budget will only really allow for the basics.......do you already have decent suspension, brakes, lubrication and cooling systems? If not, you may need a rethink mate.

[warboys]

I can highly recommend Rollcentre, they do a good job at a reasonable cost. its run by Martin Short of TVR, GT and Le Mans fame. His premises are in the next village to me and he lives on site.

I don't want to scare you, but I would expect a decent multipoint welded in cage to swallow most of that 3k budget if its done properly. It does of course all depend on material used, and material affects weight.

As Stuart has stated an MSA log book would be required for any level of rallying. Below is a link to the certificate for my rollcage, as you can see, and as Stuart said, it is the design that is certificated and the installer. You can see how light my cage is on the certificate and this is down to the material and its strength, but its not cheap.

http://www.thesladefamily.co.uk/madcow/ ... Photo8.jpg
http://www.thesladefamily.co.uk/madcow/ ... Photo9.jpg

[Tigerfill]

Cheers fella i see what you are saying, as for the budget i was thinking

[Stuart]

It may be an idea to plan staged improvements then Phil, so that you don't do the same mod twice. Maybe this year look at, say for example, your suspension or brakes and get them right, before moving on. Realistically you may be able to borrow some ideas from the guys that are involved with the Nippon series.

[warboys]

My recommendation would be to plan what form of motorsport you will be mainly competing in. You will probably find that the rally regulations are stricter than most due to the greater risks. Get yourself a copy of the blue book if you haven't got one already and get reading.

Just been browsing some of my cage catalogues and you will be looking at

[Tigerfill]

Cheers guys thanks for the help. Would I need a MSA log book to comepte in sprinting and time attack for instance and if not what are the regs for these or where can I find them. Thanks Phil

[blacky]

No Logbook required for Sprinting or Time Attack if it's raod registered and legal.

Phil - no one has stated the obvious yet, if you want to do rallying your better off buying a car already done, it'll be much cheaper in the long run.

If just doing Sprinting etc then Safety Devices do a 6 point FIA Approved Bolt in. I had one in my STI V5 RA.

Hope this helps.