Lloyd,
Firstly, what the fook are you doing posting on here at 9:30am??? Your break is at half 10...just coz I aint there to manage you don't mean you can take the pi55........... :x :x :roll:
Secondly, if I wanted a bang for your buck upgrade the Ralliart ECU would be the way I would go. For less than
Evo question
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Turbosnatch
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:59 am
- Location: Okinawa, Japland
So I am confused, This is probably a stupid question but is the ralliart chip and ralliart ecu the same thing?
Apparently this chip is mappable, I will have my wideband in so I have my own reference to air fuel ratio. I assume with ralliart specializing in Mitsubishi, it would be a trustworthy source. Cash is the problem here as I dont really want to splash out quite yet on a stand alone. I just want something to perk it up a bit. Like I said im only going to be running 1.2 bar as I want to play it safe as im not upgrading my head gasket just yet. I have a wallbro fuel pump 190 I believe. The chip itself and mapping is costing me $300 about 170 pounds. So you can see why this is an option. I just dont want to damage my engine or risk anything. I know any mod is a risk though.
See with the SAFC neo i can tune the part throttle fuel to help me with richness.
I know its a small gain but people I have spoken to says it made quite a difference but blew their heads, they were running 1.5 bar with stock everything though so im not suprised.
I like to stay with the stock ecu as i like the fact it pulls timing out if neccessary, will this chip affect this?
Apparently this chip is mappable, I will have my wideband in so I have my own reference to air fuel ratio. I assume with ralliart specializing in Mitsubishi, it would be a trustworthy source. Cash is the problem here as I dont really want to splash out quite yet on a stand alone. I just want something to perk it up a bit. Like I said im only going to be running 1.2 bar as I want to play it safe as im not upgrading my head gasket just yet. I have a wallbro fuel pump 190 I believe. The chip itself and mapping is costing me $300 about 170 pounds. So you can see why this is an option. I just dont want to damage my engine or risk anything. I know any mod is a risk though.
See with the SAFC neo i can tune the part throttle fuel to help me with richness.
I know its a small gain but people I have spoken to says it made quite a difference but blew their heads, they were running 1.5 bar with stock everything though so im not suprised.
I like to stay with the stock ecu as i like the fact it pulls timing out if neccessary, will this chip affect this?
[quote="LR6GSR"]Well if you are running a low boost set up and do not wish to map the Ralliart ECuUis a plug and play option.
I am unsure of early 1-3 Evo aplication as i have a 6 TME i belive it is not avalable for 1-3 not sure tho!
Whilst some will tell you to spend over 1K on a mapped set up at 1.2 bar you really do not need it it is compleate overkill.
Should you use a RA ECU and want to upgrade later you will never be short of mate waiting for one i have 3 waiting for mine if i upgrade LOL
Be cautious of running hight boost on an Evo 3 as they have a hight comp ratio and a melt down will follow on from overboost.
Benny on here has some early Evo advise and is 1-3 secatery for the MLR so i am sure can help you out.
Controled fueling is a problem on early cars Gizzmo chips often used suffer this fuel regulator helps.
Llyod as for it being a waste of time?
When you have owned an Evo of your own run the set up i have on a daily basis you will know that less than
I am unsure of early 1-3 Evo aplication as i have a 6 TME i belive it is not avalable for 1-3 not sure tho!
Whilst some will tell you to spend over 1K on a mapped set up at 1.2 bar you really do not need it it is compleate overkill.
Should you use a RA ECU and want to upgrade later you will never be short of mate waiting for one i have 3 waiting for mine if i upgrade LOL
Be cautious of running hight boost on an Evo 3 as they have a hight comp ratio and a melt down will follow on from overboost.
Benny on here has some early Evo advise and is 1-3 secatery for the MLR so i am sure can help you out.
Controled fueling is a problem on early cars Gizzmo chips often used suffer this fuel regulator helps.
Llyod as for it being a waste of time?
When you have owned an Evo of your own run the set up i have on a daily basis you will know that less than
I agree with some of your points Lloyd but some are way, way off.
Firstly, Liams car ran 345bhp and 315lbs of torque and the fuelling was spot on all the way through the rev range with only exhaust and induction mods plus RA ECU. This is slightly more than a 5bhp increase from standard? :roll: I know you think the sunshines out of Dyno Dynamics ar5e but everyone who has run on the Emerald rollers seem to more than happy with their results. If you remember Alan went on both and the difference was 1bhp and the torque was exactly the same........
Secondly, according to several reliable sources on the MLR the RA ECU is mapped for 1.4-5bar which I know EVERYONE who is running an RA ECU runs quite happily without fuelling or ignition worries?
Finally, once again you seem to be taking the pi55 by posting during work hours.........can you please try and get your fooking arse into gear and get some work done..........
Firstly, Liams car ran 345bhp and 315lbs of torque and the fuelling was spot on all the way through the rev range with only exhaust and induction mods plus RA ECU. This is slightly more than a 5bhp increase from standard? :roll: I know you think the sunshines out of Dyno Dynamics ar5e but everyone who has run on the Emerald rollers seem to more than happy with their results. If you remember Alan went on both and the difference was 1bhp and the torque was exactly the same........
Secondly, according to several reliable sources on the MLR the RA ECU is mapped for 1.4-5bar which I know EVERYONE who is running an RA ECU runs quite happily without fuelling or ignition worries?
Finally, once again you seem to be taking the pi55 by posting during work hours.........can you please try and get your fooking arse into gear and get some work done..........
Black Evo 5...........
The chip contains a load of tables (maps) that have been configured for an engine of a certain spec - if you are not certain of the spec then there will be points in the tables that may not suit your engine.
ECUs tend to pull the timing out if they have a knock sensor (most do) so changing the maps will not remove this function unless they've reverse engineered the ECUs code and have changed the way it works.
You can use your AFR gauge to keep an eye on things from a fuel perspective but you a) can't change the fuel, b) have no control over the timing.
I would take time out to save money, learn more about what engine management options are available to you (no I'm not trying to sell mine) and buy the right solution, buying a chip for 'cheap power' is a false economy if you have to have major head work done...
A mod should not be a risk, it should be an engineered solution.
Rob
ECUs tend to pull the timing out if they have a knock sensor (most do) so changing the maps will not remove this function unless they've reverse engineered the ECUs code and have changed the way it works.
You can use your AFR gauge to keep an eye on things from a fuel perspective but you a) can't change the fuel, b) have no control over the timing.
I would take time out to save money, learn more about what engine management options are available to you (no I'm not trying to sell mine) and buy the right solution, buying a chip for 'cheap power' is a false economy if you have to have major head work done...
A mod should not be a risk, it should be an engineered solution.
Rob
Thanks for the support on this Rob 
Benny, several points for you mate:
To start with,the sun does shine out of the Dyno Dynamics rse because it is the most accurate dyno in the world!And the most widely used! :-D fact fact fact
Secondly,If you read what i wrote clearly
"5hp and 8-12 lb/ft increase 'quoted by Mitsubishi', ask your dealer.Obviously when paired up with stage one upgrades, this will increase slightly"
this states that these figures are for the unit running without stage one modifications!this is what the unit is designed for, this is generally referred to as 'construction and use'
thirdly
"according to several reliable sources on the MLR the RA ECU is mapped for 1.4-5bar which I know EVERYONE who is running an RA ECU runs quite happily without fuelling or ignition worries?"
Im sure that the MLR know more about the product than Ralliart!After all, Ralliart didnt design and manufacture it did they?
Again, construction and use
fourthly,I said
"As it runs in conjuction with the AFM, the fuelling should be fairly ok "
Im not sure if you know what the AFM does but it adjusts the AFR
fifthly,they wouldnt be able to check their ignition, duty cycles etc, so they wouldnt know if was running with the required parameter,fuelling is only a small area of a map
If its not designed to do the job that you want it to do, find a product that is :-D
As Rob said "buying a chip for 'cheap power' is a false economy"
You shouldnt try to cut corners
and finally, I get to use my favourite saying "you buy cheap, you buy twice"
Lloyd :-D
Benny, several points for you mate:
To start with,the sun does shine out of the Dyno Dynamics rse because it is the most accurate dyno in the world!And the most widely used! :-D fact fact fact
Secondly,If you read what i wrote clearly
"5hp and 8-12 lb/ft increase 'quoted by Mitsubishi', ask your dealer.Obviously when paired up with stage one upgrades, this will increase slightly"
this states that these figures are for the unit running without stage one modifications!this is what the unit is designed for, this is generally referred to as 'construction and use'
thirdly
"according to several reliable sources on the MLR the RA ECU is mapped for 1.4-5bar which I know EVERYONE who is running an RA ECU runs quite happily without fuelling or ignition worries?"
Im sure that the MLR know more about the product than Ralliart!After all, Ralliart didnt design and manufacture it did they?
Again, construction and use
fourthly,I said
"As it runs in conjuction with the AFM, the fuelling should be fairly ok "
Im not sure if you know what the AFM does but it adjusts the AFR
fifthly,they wouldnt be able to check their ignition, duty cycles etc, so they wouldnt know if was running with the required parameter,fuelling is only a small area of a map
If its not designed to do the job that you want it to do, find a product that is :-D
As Rob said "buying a chip for 'cheap power' is a false economy"
You shouldnt try to cut corners
and finally, I get to use my favourite saying "you buy cheap, you buy twice"
Lloyd :-D
Lloyd,
Firstly, I am glad to see you used you allotted lunch break to reply this time
Secondly, Dyno Dynamics are a great rolling road set up. I agree but Emerald runs near on the same figures so Liams figures would be roughly the same anywhere.
Thirdly, construction and use........sorry mate, being a thick call centre monkey you'll have to explain this one to me?? :?
Fourthly, AFM??? Actual Fried Monkey?? A Fookin Melon?? Ar5e For Me?? Sorry mate...... :oops: :-D
Fifthly, Duty cycles?? Is that what my missus gets once a month??
Finally, at the end of the day mate we all know people who run RA ECU's more than happily and make good power figures. I have never once said I would prefer it over a mappable unit, I am just defending the RA ECU as an economical way for good power gains.......
P.S Construction and Use?? :?:
Firstly, I am glad to see you used you allotted lunch break to reply this time
Secondly, Dyno Dynamics are a great rolling road set up. I agree but Emerald runs near on the same figures so Liams figures would be roughly the same anywhere.
Thirdly, construction and use........sorry mate, being a thick call centre monkey you'll have to explain this one to me?? :?
Fourthly, AFM??? Actual Fried Monkey?? A Fookin Melon?? Ar5e For Me?? Sorry mate...... :oops: :-D
Fifthly, Duty cycles?? Is that what my missus gets once a month??
Finally, at the end of the day mate we all know people who run RA ECU's more than happily and make good power figures. I have never once said I would prefer it over a mappable unit, I am just defending the RA ECU as an economical way for good power gains.......
P.S Construction and Use?? :?:
Black Evo 5...........
They maybe close on a single run/batch of runs however the Dyno Dynamics is proven time and time again.Dyno Dynamics guarantee that you can place your car on one of their rolling roads anywhere in the world and it will run within 3hp either way.They continually police the use of their dynos with a mytery shopper approach to ensure that quality and results are maintained.
Construction and Use
Is when something whether it be an ECU,air filter or pair of running shoes is designed to do one particular thing.It has been contructed for that particular use.
AFM is an abreviation of Air Flow Meter
AFR is an abreviation or Air/Fuel Ratio
Duty cycles ect are various parts of a map such as injector timing,igniton timing ect, just a terminology
Finally, I was expressing my concern for the Contruction and Use of the item and what it is intended for.The problem being that it is designed to do one thing and often used for something else, people often see a chip or RA as being capable of something that it is not, then wonder why things may go wrong.There are so many areas that you have to take into account within the tuning increments that are often over looked.I am merely hear to help and give solid advice to those that require it, those that think they know best, well, good luck to you.I am more than happy to share my experience and knowledge that i have gained from training and working within motorsport with anybody that requires it.
Lloyd
Construction and Use
Is when something whether it be an ECU,air filter or pair of running shoes is designed to do one particular thing.It has been contructed for that particular use.
AFM is an abreviation of Air Flow Meter
AFR is an abreviation or Air/Fuel Ratio
Duty cycles ect are various parts of a map such as injector timing,igniton timing ect, just a terminology
Finally, I was expressing my concern for the Contruction and Use of the item and what it is intended for.The problem being that it is designed to do one thing and often used for something else, people often see a chip or RA as being capable of something that it is not, then wonder why things may go wrong.There are so many areas that you have to take into account within the tuning increments that are often over looked.I am merely hear to help and give solid advice to those that require it, those that think they know best, well, good luck to you.I am more than happy to share my experience and knowledge that i have gained from training and working within motorsport with anybody that requires it.
Lloyd
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Bladerider
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:51 am
- Location: nowhere !!!
- Contact:
Benny,
I dont know why you keep feeling the need to give Lloyd grief when all he states is the truth.
I have only met him once, so I dont feel an affinity with him or think he's wonderful, just that people who try to put down accurate statements to enhance their own arguments frustrate me. I am also unsure how much you actually "know" and how much you are just jesting.
Here is a simple roundup of the situation for all people interested in this thread:
A Ralliart ECU/Chip is made by Ralliart, has a quoted figure (which I dont know so wont quote) from Ralliart, is preprogrammed for a stock engine with a bit of extra boost. It retains the "learniong" and adjustment characteristics of the standard ECU and as such extra gains can be seen above their quoted figures id fitted to a car with more performance goodies, like Airfilter, Exhaust etc.
A fully mappable ECU has the advantage that it canbe adapted precisely to the exact specifications of any vehicle setup (within reason) and therefore not only extract the best performance from that setup, but do it as safely as possible.
The first option is significantly cheaper the the second solution, in fact probably 1/3rd to 1/4er of the price once a mapping session and fitting has been taken into account.
However it is down to personaly selection of whether you feel a slightly riskier and less accurate setup which is probably
I dont know why you keep feeling the need to give Lloyd grief when all he states is the truth.
I have only met him once, so I dont feel an affinity with him or think he's wonderful, just that people who try to put down accurate statements to enhance their own arguments frustrate me. I am also unsure how much you actually "know" and how much you are just jesting.
Here is a simple roundup of the situation for all people interested in this thread:
A Ralliart ECU/Chip is made by Ralliart, has a quoted figure (which I dont know so wont quote) from Ralliart, is preprogrammed for a stock engine with a bit of extra boost. It retains the "learniong" and adjustment characteristics of the standard ECU and as such extra gains can be seen above their quoted figures id fitted to a car with more performance goodies, like Airfilter, Exhaust etc.
A fully mappable ECU has the advantage that it canbe adapted precisely to the exact specifications of any vehicle setup (within reason) and therefore not only extract the best performance from that setup, but do it as safely as possible.
The first option is significantly cheaper the the second solution, in fact probably 1/3rd to 1/4er of the price once a mapping session and fitting has been taken into account.
However it is down to personaly selection of whether you feel a slightly riskier and less accurate setup which is probably
:isgay:
:ymca:
Those that think they know best??? I do hope you aren't aiming that at myself and Liam Lloyd?? [-X
I never questioned your extensive knowledge of motorsport..... :lol:...I merely stated my view of the RA ECU advantages.
For the record Bladerider, myself and Lloyd have been good mates for years and we are sitting about 5 metres away from each other.....
:ymca:
Those that think they know best??? I do hope you aren't aiming that at myself and Liam Lloyd?? [-X
I never questioned your extensive knowledge of motorsport..... :lol:...I merely stated my view of the RA ECU advantages.
For the record Bladerider, myself and Lloyd have been good mates for years and we are sitting about 5 metres away from each other.....
Black Evo 5...........