As you are aware, this day was not being run by MSV, therefore you should be speaking to your track day operators as to why they didnt pass on the relevant information to you.
Please see below a statement which has been lifted directly from the "Terms & Conditions" signed by your track day organiser.
"Monitoring of Drive-by Noise Levels
MSV may monitor drive-by levels using noise meters located at appropriate locations around the circuits. If the results of
the monitoring show that a particular vehicle is generating drive-by sound levels appreciably higher than vehicles with
comparable static test results, then MSV staff may notify the Client or Participant; the relevant participant must not take
any further part in the event until he/she has addressed the noise levels generated by the vehicle to bring them within
acceptable limits"
Snetterton Friday May 8th with Opentrack
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Safety_James
- Posts: 1295
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- Location: Snetterton Circuit - Track Safety
- Contact:
Just To Clarify..
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mutleysfriend
- Posts: 124
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Re: Just To Clarify..
[quote="James_s"]As you are aware, this day was not being run by MSV, therefore you should be speaking to your track day operators as to why they didnt pass on the relevant information to you.
Please see below a statement which has been lifted directly from the "Terms & Conditions" signed by your track day organiser.
"Monitoring of Drive-by Noise Levels
MSV may monitor drive-by levels using noise meters located at appropriate locations around the circuits. If the results of
the monitoring show that a particular vehicle is generating drive-by sound levels appreciably higher than vehicles with
comparable static test results, then MSV staff may notify the Client or Participant]
The point I was making here was that even if I had have booked through MSV I would not have know about the requirement for a drive past test at Snetterton. The only mention of the requirement to pass a drive past test on their website is at Bedford.
I was letting other members know of this in order that they do not suffer the same disappointment that I did today.
mf.
Please see below a statement which has been lifted directly from the "Terms & Conditions" signed by your track day organiser.
"Monitoring of Drive-by Noise Levels
MSV may monitor drive-by levels using noise meters located at appropriate locations around the circuits. If the results of
the monitoring show that a particular vehicle is generating drive-by sound levels appreciably higher than vehicles with
comparable static test results, then MSV staff may notify the Client or Participant]
The point I was making here was that even if I had have booked through MSV I would not have know about the requirement for a drive past test at Snetterton. The only mention of the requirement to pass a drive past test on their website is at Bedford.
I was letting other members know of this in order that they do not suffer the same disappointment that I did today.
mf.
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Safety_James
- Posts: 1295
- Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:58 am
- Location: Snetterton Circuit - Track Safety
- Contact:
That is not the case at all im afraid - Im making this point clear as we have to take noise violations very carefully and its not worth the risk not putting the relevant information there for everyone who has access to the tracks.
If you book at trackday/testday through us then those details are also in the terms and conditions that you have to tick online when booking through MSV for our all our track days, and also attached to confirmation emails. The unfortunate thing that happens all the time is that people do not read them. It happens right the way from regular trackday clients through to top Le-Mans teams.
See below as an example:
http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/track ... ctID=5179#
at the bottom of this page is the tick box area with the relevant links to the information, under "Trackday Regulations"
"Drive-by Monitoring
Whilst MSV do not currently impose a drive-by limit at Snetterton, in the interests of ensuring that the spirit of the noise level limits is respected, MSV do monitor drive-by levels using noise meters located around the circuit.
If the results of the drive-by monitoring show that a particular vehicle is generating drive-by sound levels appreciably higher than vehicles with comparable static test results, then MSV staff will notify the participant, and the relevant vehicle shall not be permitted to take further part in the event until the participant has addressed the noise levels generated by their vehicle to bring them within acceptable sound levels.
Further participation in the track day may be precluded if acceptable drive-by limits cannot be achieved at the first drive-by test following the addition of extra silencing"
Now all im trying to do is state the facts 100% so that in future people know the risks. Yes you may well pass a static noise test, however people go back to the garages out the way of staff and cameras, remove silencers, baffles etc and that is then picked up on the drive by monitors around the circuit. At this difficult time with noise becoming a major factor in a circuits track time availabilty, (just look at Croft) we have to be ever cautious with regards to noise levels.
I hope this clarifys your problem.
Dave, apologies for hijacking your thread, just want to help people out for clarity in the future.
As for today, Dave and Phill ran a fantastic day, very smooth with few problems and a great collection of cars as always. Was impressed with the new Focus RS, what a car! 8) Hopefully see you again soon!
James
If you book at trackday/testday through us then those details are also in the terms and conditions that you have to tick online when booking through MSV for our all our track days, and also attached to confirmation emails. The unfortunate thing that happens all the time is that people do not read them. It happens right the way from regular trackday clients through to top Le-Mans teams.
See below as an example:
http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/track ... ctID=5179#
at the bottom of this page is the tick box area with the relevant links to the information, under "Trackday Regulations"
"Drive-by Monitoring
Whilst MSV do not currently impose a drive-by limit at Snetterton, in the interests of ensuring that the spirit of the noise level limits is respected, MSV do monitor drive-by levels using noise meters located around the circuit.
If the results of the drive-by monitoring show that a particular vehicle is generating drive-by sound levels appreciably higher than vehicles with comparable static test results, then MSV staff will notify the participant, and the relevant vehicle shall not be permitted to take further part in the event until the participant has addressed the noise levels generated by their vehicle to bring them within acceptable sound levels.
Further participation in the track day may be precluded if acceptable drive-by limits cannot be achieved at the first drive-by test following the addition of extra silencing"
Now all im trying to do is state the facts 100% so that in future people know the risks. Yes you may well pass a static noise test, however people go back to the garages out the way of staff and cameras, remove silencers, baffles etc and that is then picked up on the drive by monitors around the circuit. At this difficult time with noise becoming a major factor in a circuits track time availabilty, (just look at Croft) we have to be ever cautious with regards to noise levels.
I hope this clarifys your problem.
Dave, apologies for hijacking your thread, just want to help people out for clarity in the future.
As for today, Dave and Phill ran a fantastic day, very smooth with few problems and a great collection of cars as always. Was impressed with the new Focus RS, what a car! 8) Hopefully see you again soon!
James
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mutleysfriend
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:05 pm
I think this information would be more helpful if it was set out on the main page that deals with noise testing rather than in the terms and conditions.
I didn't really intend to turn this into a debate.
I only wanted to draw to other members attention that even if you know your car will pass the static noise test, as I did having been to Snetterton several times in the past, that it is possible to be asked to leave as you may exceed a drive past test.
Incidentally, I was asked to do a second static test immediately after being black flagged the result of which was again only 100db at 6000 revs (my redline is 7500). The marshall who conducted the test couldn't understand why I was apparently getting such high readings on track but he having checked with race control I was still asked to leave. I certainly didn't change anything that would have increased the noise car so god only knows how this happend.
Anyway I have now said my piece so....over and out.
mf.
I didn't really intend to turn this into a debate.
I only wanted to draw to other members attention that even if you know your car will pass the static noise test, as I did having been to Snetterton several times in the past, that it is possible to be asked to leave as you may exceed a drive past test.
Incidentally, I was asked to do a second static test immediately after being black flagged the result of which was again only 100db at 6000 revs (my redline is 7500). The marshall who conducted the test couldn't understand why I was apparently getting such high readings on track but he having checked with race control I was still asked to leave. I certainly didn't change anything that would have increased the noise car so god only knows how this happend.
Anyway I have now said my piece so....over and out.
mf.
Chaps the first thing i knew about this was at 5.30 this evening when saying good by to the circuit manager,who then pointed out to me that a customer was posting on BigPower and was not happy about the day.
He did explain to me what happened and i have to say there is a variation in opinions here.
As far as i know Msv black flagged you due to noise levels generated by your car, and you were asked to rectify the problem.
Had the car come to within noise limits there would have been no problem in you carrying on with the day,As far as i am aware you made the decision to leave the circuit yourself.
At no time did you come to find either Myself or Phil who were in the Paddock area all afternoon to discuss your situation.
It would have been nice to know first hand rather than have you post this in various web sites this evening.
so far Big Power and Piston Heads and i am sure various others ...........
Sorry that you appeared not to have a good time as on PH you say "All in all a disappointing day."
But Noise is something no Tdo has any say over .
Dave
He did explain to me what happened and i have to say there is a variation in opinions here.
As far as i know Msv black flagged you due to noise levels generated by your car, and you were asked to rectify the problem.
Had the car come to within noise limits there would have been no problem in you carrying on with the day,As far as i am aware you made the decision to leave the circuit yourself.
At no time did you come to find either Myself or Phil who were in the Paddock area all afternoon to discuss your situation.
It would have been nice to know first hand rather than have you post this in various web sites this evening.
so far Big Power and Piston Heads and i am sure various others ...........
Sorry that you appeared not to have a good time as on PH you say "All in all a disappointing day."
But Noise is something no Tdo has any say over .
Dave
[quote="mgv8dave"]Yes mate far to many spaces left !!
we only have 21 cars booked for this day so it will be track time heaven, so plenty of space left.
I am wondering what have we done wrong to have so few
But as far i i know we have only done right so it is all well and good.
When you look at the price
we only have 21 cars booked for this day so it will be track time heaven, so plenty of space left.
I am wondering what have we done wrong to have so few
But as far i i know we have only done right so it is all well and good.
When you look at the price
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mutleysfriend
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:05 pm
Whilst I hadn't intended to post further on this topic I feel it ought to explain myself. The intention of my posts was to to raise the awareness that despite passing a static noise test you may still be black flagged and asked to leave the circuit, as I was, if you do not pass the drive by noise test. This is not something that I my view is entirely clear from the websites advertising these trackdays.mgv8dave wrote:Chaps the first thing i knew about this was at 5.30 this evening when saying good by to the circuit manager,who then pointed out to me that a customer was posting on BigPower and was not happy about the day.
He did explain to me what happened and i have to say there is a variation in opinions here.
As far as i know Msv black flagged you due to noise levels generated by your car, and you were asked to rectify the problem.
Had the car come to within noise limits there would have been no problem in you carrying on with the day,As far as i am aware you made the decision to leave the circuit yourself.
At no time did you come to find either Myself or Phil who were in the Paddock area all afternoon to discuss your situation.
It would have been nice to know first hand rather than have you post this in various web sites this evening.
so far Big Power and Piston Heads and i am sure various others ...........
Sorry that you appeared not to have a good time as on PH you say "All in all a disappointing day."
But Noise is something no Tdo has any say over .
Dave
To answer the specific points that you make there was no way that the problem could be rectified, as stated above I passed both static noise tests that I was asked to take (indeed at 100db each) but apparently still managed to be 8db above any other car on the course when on track. What could be done to rectify this is I really don't know. The noise marshell who examined my car knew full well that there was nothing I could do to rectify the situation and he made it clear to me having discussed this with race control on the radio that in view of this I was to leave the course hence why I did not consider it necessary to discuss this with you as TDO's. The decision had been made by MSV that I was to leave and I did not consider that discussing it with you would change this; as you say "noise is something no TDO has any say over".
In the circumstances not unsurprisingly I felt disappointed.
My posts were not intended to be a slur against Opentrack and I apologise if they were interpreted in this way, this was not my intention. In so far as Opentrack were concerned the day was very well run and I would have no hesitation of booking a further trackday with them.
Now this really is my last word.
mf.