Mapping on Rolling Road - Any tips for a first timer?

Post by **Stuart** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:41 pm

Beautiful Scott. Top man :thumb:

Pavlo · Post by **Pavlo** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:36 pm

My tip for the RR tune is to treat it like a road to begin with. Start at low boost, the lowest you can, and you sit in the car while the operator puts the car through a power run. Datalog the power run and listen through the cans, keep an eye on the AFR at the same time. You want a reasonably short run duration, about 10 seconds is plenty, it will help to prevent heat buildup.

If you're using a PowerFC then doing it on the hand commander is not really a good idea if you're beginning map in general.

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:56 pm

Tony

If you want I can come out and help put some basic figures in the cells for you this weekend and log some basic runs on the roads around here.

Good points Pavlo.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:50 pm

Wow, nice response

Thanks very much for your comments Scott, you have got my brain working overtime. I am now going to re-read a couple of books, which is not my preferred learning method, as I have a 'few' gaps in my understanding....

Equipment:
ECU: DTA S60 Pro (3bar MAP sensor)
Wideband: Innovate LC1
EGT: K-type Thermocouple strapped to the manifold(Not ideal but better than nothing) Via Innovate LMA3
DET: HKS Knock Monitor

You will need a safe timing map before you start to map. This is very important. I would usually take a few deg's off what is the best tune for the same engine to start with.

This is the first 3sgte on this ECU, so no base map! I have started completely from scratch.

The ECU has Main Ign and Fuel tables. It also has correction tables for ACT, Water temp, voltage, ect. Yes data logs can be imported into Excel Very nice for sorting columns to examine common conditions.

How do I decide AFR and Timing for Peak tq? I thought that is what I am trying to findout, and the result is only known once mapped? I am missing something here. Do you fancy explaining?

Cheers Stuart and Pavlo.

Dunc, I may take you up on that. Extending the map a little will do no harm.

All comments appreciated as I am feeling a little out of my depth ATM :lol:

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:04 pm

Tony - got some time spare over the weekend if you want someone to hold the laptop and go for runs over the fens

sdminus · Post by **sdminus** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:04 pm

I think a good place to start would be the 3sgte apexi map. The engine parameters will be the same.

I give an example

I usually use the 1 deg per 1 lb of boost retard up to peak tq.

So i run about 30 deg adv at idle

At 15 psi of boost i know the engine will hold 15 deg adv if all is running sweet.

So when i did my fuel map i droped my timing to 11 deg adv for a little extra safty when setting the afrs. This will enable me to be a touch leaner and get away with it.
If you go too retarded the egt will rise but if you go to advanced the egt will also rise. I tend to find knock is more timing influenced than AFR.

I think i have a map for the 3sgte on a cd some place so i will look for you.

Scott

Pavlo · Post by **Pavlo** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:10 pm

3sgte is generally a "medium timing" engine from my experience. At 1 bar of boost expect to be able to run mid teens timing wise. It runs around 40 degrees on light cruise, and about 20 degrees on idle.

With time you will begin to know your ECU and how to get the best out of it.

Fuelling wise I would use the following as a guide:

14.7:1 for idle, light cruise, up to about 90kpa abs

buy the time you hit around 150kpa (half a bar of boost) then 12:1 is more appropriate.

1 bar will want around 11-11.5:1 depending on EGT and backpressure and other stuff.

If you have EGT info then you may find you're led to richen it up to avoid high temps.

I wouldn't worry about what AFR makes the best torque, as you may find it's the best AFR for killing the engine. There is always a compromise between timing and fuel.

May the schwartz be with you!

andycaca · Post by **andycaca** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:20 pm

tony, havent you spoken to wiggy and paul bartolo? im 100% positive they have fitted, mapped and still running with the DTA ecu.

they might not let you have their maps tho

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:31 pm

I am running 25deg on idle and only 17deg on light cruise at present. I have been aiming for 12.5:1 upto 9psi, so I think I need to richen this, but it has been ok due to the conservative timing...

I am aiming for 1.4/1.5 bar temps permitting.

What EGT's are acceptable under different conditions?
Only having a K'type strapped to the manifold maybe a little slow to respond but I hope it will be quite accurate?

Please keep the tips/views comming. Very informative and much appreciated

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:35 pm

I have had a few chats with PaulB

They are running the older DTA units. Paul has indeed shared his map with me (sshhh don't tell anyone ;-) ), but I am trying not to look at it too much as he has lot more mods than I have :lol:

As I say this is the 1st S60 Pro on a 3sgte